Black Women Healing Outdoors: Deborah McGlawn of Ch8sing Waterfalls
I don’t expect you to the DEIB Outdoors “About” page.
That said, I wrote some pretty personal stuff there about my mental health downfall and how experiencing a gorge in Ithaca, New York, turned everything around for me.
Not too long after starting DEIB Outdoors, I discovered that another woman found deep healing from taking in a waterfall. Not only that, but she’s used that experience to get more black and brown women active in outdoor recreation — especially in chasing waterfalls.
I had to meet her and introduce her to you.
Deborah McGlawn founded Ch8sing Waterfalls in 2017 to bring black and brown women hiking in search of waterfalls while creating a new narrative and designing their own healing.
She has taken her Metro Atlanta, Georgia area “Ch8sers” through several U.S. states — and most recently, to Jamaica — to create sisterhood, experience nature, and gain a fresh perspective.
The Healing Power of Mother Nature
For most of her life, Deborah was a city girl who'd never laid eyes on a waterfall.
But, when the loss of her daughter and the grips of depression overwhelmed her, her husband decided to introduce her to the enchanting beauty of waterfalls. Initially hesitant, Deborah soon found herself overcome with emotions when she caught sight of her first waterfall.
This transformative experience touched her deeply. Standing there, she felt like she was healing herself, as if the cascade of water was washing away all her mental health struggles, bringing healing and catharsis.
Deborah has since developed a deep appreciation for the natural world, especially waterfalls. She founded Ch8sing Waterfalls to introduce black and brown women to the healing power of Mother Nature.
Another mission of Ch8sing Waterfalls is to introduce, as Deborah says, more "brown faces in green spaces." Since historically, people of color have not felt safe and welcomed in outdoor spaces, Deborah has built a community where black and brown women can express themselves freely without fear of judgment or suppression.
The Rundown of Our Chat
Here's what you'll learn in this interview with Deborah McGlawn of Ch8sing Waterfalls. The timestamps represent where in the video you can hear that particular discussion.
[01:17] Deborah discovers the healing power of her first waterfall
[04:30] She began her first hike with black and brown women through the Metro Atlanta Girl Trek chapter. She was amazed at how many people showed up.
[07:37] Her members find healing and empowerment in monthly outdoor chases, leaving their heartache and baggage at waterfalls.
[10:43] Nature experiences are different for people of color, who historically have not felt safe or welcomed. A Ch8sing Waterfalls sisterhood in nature provides healing and a sense of belonging.
[13:45] Deborah and her group leaders are trained for safety and provide gear, knowledge, and sisterhood to women on hikes, encouraging them to enjoy nature, release stress, and connect with others.
[18:40] Ch8sing Waterfalls lets black and brown women explore nature for free, with events posted on Instagram, Facebook, and their website. Only two annual events require payment, with details on their website.
Links from this Interview
Ch8sing Waterfalls (website) and Ch8sing Waterfalls on Instagram
Ready to Learn More about Deborah McGlawn and Ch8sing Waterfalls?
Here's the full video of my chat with Deborah from Ch8sing Waterfalls.
-
Lisa: Welcome everyone to another episode of DEIB Outdoors.
I am your host, Lisa Kalner Williams, and we have a very special guest joining us today, Deborah McGlawn from Ch8sing Waterfalls. Ch8sing Waterfalls is a nonprofit organization based in the metro Atlanta area, and it's dedicated to connecting black and brown women to the wonders and healing of nature, one waterfall at a time. Her group has chased waterfalls in Georgia, the Carolinas, Alabama, Tennessee, and even internationally, just recently in Jamaica. Welcome to the podcast, Deborah.
Deborah: Thank you so much, Lisa. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm so excited for this conversation today.
Lisa: Same here. I've been following your adventures literally all over and very happy for the chance to speak with you.
This is the first group that I've spoken to that deals with waterfalls in particular, and it's my understanding that your husband introduced you to waterfalls a few years ago. What was that experience like for you?
Deborah: You know, that was, this is true. My husband did introduce me to waterfalls.
The story I won't go the long version of it, but I was going through a very challenging time in my life and I was in a horrible state of depression. I just didn't even recognize myself. And so he, knew this and we did all the things to try to get me back to myself? And so one of his friends had told him about he and his wife going to a waterfall here in Georgia and thought that maybe that might be something that I would enjoy as well.
Well, the both of us might would enjoy. And lo and behold, my husband was like, let, let's just try it. Let's just go out, get out the house, go see a waterfall. Now I'm a city girl from urban communities where there are no waterfalls in sight, like you'd have to, there were no waterfalls in my childhood, so I'd only seen waterfalls on TV or movies or something.
So I'm like, okay, yeah, we're gonna go to a waterfall. Are we sure about this? And he goes, well, it's a touristy type area. So, you know, it's one of those kinda like an amusement park, but not an amusement park. You can walk up and not have to have a scout or anything, so. Okay, sure. Well, let's, let's give it a try for me, when I got there, it was, All things.
It was overwhelming. It was beautiful. It was amazing, breathtaking. There were so many words that I, so many feelings that I had that I were, was at a loss for words ? It was beyond anything I expected. I didn't do a lot of research at the time, and it was so cathartic, so cleansing, so healing, so therapeutic.
I literally began crying. I was just standing there and tears were just rolling uncontrollably to the point. My husband was like, are you okay? I was like, I, I am. I think this is good. These are good tears. Right? And I just, it was flooded. I was flooded with emotions, but then also I realized I was flooded with release.
I was flooded with emotions of I, I felt like I was coming around to myself or I felt like I felt a. some joy returning at the waterfalls. It was like healing, and it was almost as if whatever was going on was just washing away at the waterfalls.
Like the mist of the waterfall was hitting my face. And that would, to me, was just powerful. Almost like I can feel it now, just, just talking about it. The sensation was just overwhelming for me. Again, nothing I'd ever been exposed to. So it was truly a magical moment for me.
Lisa: Wow. I'm so glad you learned of that opportunity. Imagine Yes. Yeah. And had the trajectory it's taken since then.
Deborah: Yeah, and I was, I, I was 41 then, so sadly it took me that long in life to discover the beautiful healing powers of waterfall in nature for that matter.
Lisa: I guess that's the expression. Better late than never.
Deborah: Exactly.
Lisa: Was that the pivotal moment where you decided to start an organization or was that one thing in combination with something else that led you to create Ch8sing waterfalls?
Deborah: That's a great question. It was really one thing that led to Ch8sing waterfalls. ‘Cause at that time, I was doing, it was for me. I was literally doing it for me, and I was selfishly trying, my husband and I trying to get me back to myself, right? So at that time, I didn't realize I would be, six years later, Ch8sing waterfalls with black and brown women in my community.
Had no idea. So at that time, again, it was just for me and I shared it with my sister friends. I'm also a member of Girl Trek, which is where Ch8sing Waterfalls was birthed from Girl Trek, a beautiful organization that encourages black women to get out and, and practice self-care basically. So that's what we did.
And in that community, I shared how the waterfall hikes and trips to waterfalls became healing and, helpful and therapeutic to me. So when I shared it with my girlfriends, they were like, okay, well you may be onto something. You know, we don't typically do this, but we'll, if you're doing it we'll give it a try.
And so that essentially is what happened. I shared it with my friends, and they're like, put it together and, and we'll come and sure enough, September 17th, 2017, I put together a first chase, well, at that time, a first hike to a waterfall. And it was within the Girl Trek community, and my Girl Trek sisters showed up.
There were, I thought, maybe four or five ladies would show up because, again, this was something we didn't traditionally do. We, black and brown women, aren't known to go hiking in the woods for numerous reasons, but we, we just don't hike in the woods. So I thought, well, the ladies, you know, they're really not gonna show up, so I’ll prep well prepared, but not expecting a large group.
17 women showed up that day.
Lisa: Wow.
Deborah: Exactly, exactly. So that in itself was amazing to me. And then, when it was over, we didn't want it to be over. We, we didn't know what to do at that time. We were just like, okay. It was nice. It was beautiful. Of course, we had our moments at the waterfalls. We shared, we embraced, we cried even that day.
And it was cleansing and it was therapeutic and all the things, but it was over and we didn't know. I didn't know what next to do. So then the ladies were like, Deb, so when's the next one? When's the next one? I'm like, well, what do you mean? When's the next one? This I. In my mind was just thinking that was just a one and done.
But no, they were like, this was good. We needed it. It was helpful. Let's do it again. And here we are six years later.
Lisa: Wow, that's incredible. And I love hearing about how beneficial it was for you for healing.
Deborah: Yeah.
Lisa: And it sounds like even from that one visit the first one, that people got so much from it.
My blog also deals with the mental health getting out there and it's super important. So what kinds of healing powers have your, your chasers gotten from the waterfalls? I've definitely heard how powerful it was for you.
Deborah: The ladies share my sentiments exact and they look forward to our monthly chases.
However, though, to answer your question, the women are finding, being outdoors, being at the base of the waterfalls, oftentimes being able to take our shoes off and putting our feet and grounding, they find it healing, they find it cleansing and it's liberating.
The women have come to a chase carrying heartache, baggage, pain, whatever frustrations and oftentimes get to leave it right there at the waterfalls.
Lisa: Mm.
Deborah: The ladies share in testimonials how energizing it is, how transformative it is, how the community and the sisterhood is so important and so helpful and it's, it's mentally strengthening and encouraging.
It actually gives us a reset. Oftentimes women test or, or I won't say testify, but will give feedback in that it was a reset for them, that that is exactly what they needed. And I've often heard women say that the chase, starting at the first Saturday of the month, gives them something to look forward to.
Lisa: Oh, wow.
Deborah: And it also empowers them and strengthens them to make it through the month or the week or the day to the next chase. So it is energizing and fulfilling and all of the beautiful things that you could think of.
I tell the ladies that, and myself, nature is big enough, is bold enough and brave enough to carry and handle any and everything that we bring to it.
So I tell them and encourage them to, whatever you brought with you that you want, don't wanna take back with you, just leave it. Leave it here. Mother nature is big enough to hold it. She will take it and do what with do with it, what needs to be done. And I encourage the ladies to just release it.
Just release it. So they expect that space, they expect and welcome the, the safety in the community that we've provided or that we've curated. And, and it, it, it refuels, it refreshes, and, and I like to say it empowers us to be better people be better women, to be better in all aspects of our life.
Yeah. The, the recharging, resetting, all those things.
Lisa: Yes. So powerful. Yeah. Better than any medicine for sure.
Deborah: Yes, absolutely. Yes. Absolutely.
Lisa: And do you think there's a special aspect to nature because your group is exclusively brown and black? Is there something extra special by being in a large group in a community of like-minded people.
Deborah: Oh, absolutely. We've actually taken a tour that was led by a, an individual not of color, and it was a great tour. But it was different, right. Mm. In that, and, and, and. It is a different a different experience when we are in a community where we all can resonate in similarities, right? So we all have a lot of things in common.
Being black and brown out in in nature is an exceptional experience, I think because historically, socioeconomically, we've not always felt invited, welcomed, or safe in nature in the woods outdoors. So for us to be in community together in a sisterhood outdoors speaks volumes to the limitless potential of healing.
The limitless potential of freedom, of feeling comfortable, feeling welcomed, and feeling a sense of belonging. So definitely it is, it's a totally ex exceptional and different experience than would it be if we were in a collective group of. all individuals, and I've been asked several times can a non-black or brown individual join us.
And I have to adamantly and respectfully say no because it's important that we maintain a safe space for us to be and for us not to feel like we've gotta filter our emotions. Filter our thoughts or our conversations. Or even water down or even just not speak or not share because we feel like we've got to retreat or, or suppress our true emotions or our true feelings.
So for me it is, very important for us to maintain a sacred, safe space where, mm-hmm. Where we feel the belonging and we know that it's true without judgment, without pretense, without concern of anything or any type. So absolutely, it is a different experience.
Lisa: I'd imagine, and it's interesting, that you said that one would have to filter, which makes sense, but especially when you're going to get in touch with your true feelings under a waterfall, you need to have them all at the forefront to let them go.
Deborah: Yes. Yes. Absolutely.
Lisa: Totally makes sense. So I know because the group has gotten so big, you have some leaders. Oh, they have a great name. What is it? What I forgot?
Deborah: Ch8se Champions.
Lisa: Ch8se Champions! Yes. So how do you and the Champions make sure everyone gets the most out of it? I'm sure you do some things to really have them make the most of their experience.
Deborah: I have four great Ch8se champions right now. And because we're growing, we're, we're looking to expand that into different cities.
But to answer the question, my Ch8se champions and I are both, are all trained. We are Sierra trained, first off for first aid. So we have some safety training with us, and then we also are, because we're black and brown women.
We, we know what we need from our own perspectives. And so going in, we start with safety. So we make sure that the women are safe, that they're prepared prior to even coming out.
We make sure that when we get there that they have the tools that they need. And thankfully, I've gotten some great partners in Columbia's helped us acquire a gear library.
So if women show up in or, or want to come and don't have hiking boots, then we have a lending library where we can lend hiking boots for the day. So they don't have that barrier or feel that responsibility that I want to go, but I don't have the boots, right? So we have that to afford with them.
I drive a Jeep. So my Jeep carries hiking poles at all times. Like there's hiking poles in my Jeep forever. Like they, they just live, they ride with me. So we have hiking poles and make sure that women are safe in that aspect. We, we bring waters or whatever that, you know, we think that they may need, we'll have those.
And of course, our first aid kits. So we make sure that they're safe in that regard. And then prior to us leading on the trail, we make sure that they're knowledgeable of where we're going, what to expect on the trail also. So that's important cuz a lot of my ladies are first-time hikers. They've never hiked before.
So in order to make sure they have a great experience, we ensure that those things are in place as well.
And then we go over into an introduction where we introduce ourselves so that they're comfortable knowing who they're with. Right. We tell them who we are and we invite them to introduce themselves as well.
At some point we also will kinda set the stage and, and give them an expectation of how to navigate the trails and how to appreciate and get the most out of this nature or experience that we're taking them on. So again, I will encourage the ladies, so to embrace the ch8se , to elaborate on what that means, I do that.
I tell them that to embrace the chase is to embrace the sights, embrace the sounds, the smells, the embrace it all. Embrace the sisterhood.
And I often tell them when it's safe to do. So, take a moment and look up, embrace the sights that are above us. Embrace those things that we see around us, because a, a lot, a lot of times we're watching our footsteps and so nature is above us and it's so beautiful and we catch the most beautiful sun rays, the birds, the trees, the different, different features of nature that we don't see when we're looking down at our feet. Right?
So I encourage the ladies to do that and, and essentially have a sound bath in nature.. So take the sounds and let that usher you into whatever space you need to be in. And then I also, of course, encourage the ladies to leave whatever it is that you don't wanna take back home with you, leave it there.
So I try to usher the ladies into this realm of release, usher them into a realm of healing. Now it won't be the ultimate healing. The one day is gonna fix all but try to get a piece of it while we're out on the trails. Right?
And while you're there, when there's a space where we can have conversations, try to have a conversation with a woman that maybe you didn't come with because I always say that you never know what you may have for her and what she may have for you.
And without fail, without fail, each time a woman steps away from a friend that's familiar, she reaches a friend, a new friend that truly has deposited something into her, or she has deposited into that woman. So I try to create that space where women are free and comfortable to just be. No responsibilities. No expectations. Just be. So, I try to make it special in that way.
Lisa: I love it. And it also sounds very inclusive, especially for newbies because, you know, you were a newbie not too long ago into nature.
Deborah: Yeah.
Lisa: Just to feel like, okay yeah, it's going to be safe, emotionally safe physically, you know, everything is set for me to fully enjoy that. I think that often holds people back that you all are, you know, huge trekkers, featured on the cover of Outdoor magazine or something, you know. And so, that is great.
If people, especially in the metro Atlanta area, are interested in your hikes coming up cuz you said you have them at least monthly. Yes. What's the best way for them to learn about it?
Deborah: We're very active on Instagram and every social site is the same. It's Ch8sing waterfalls and the, instead of Ch8sing with an A, it is the number eight. And that's intentional because the number eight literally is an infinity symbol and it's a nod, an homage to our daughter who has transitioned on, and she's our angel baby, which is literally we're Ch8sing waterfall's birth out of, during that time of mental depression.
It was all of that that I was going through. And so she is Ch8sing waterfalls with us.
And so it's Ch8sing with an eight in waterfalls on Instagram, Facebook, and our website is Ch8sing waterfalls.com. On there, you will see all of our events that are coming.
Also on Instagram and Facebook, we drop the next or our upcoming events there. So anyone ever interested, any black or brown female interested in joining us can go to our website under events and literally just RSVP, read all the details and join us at a chase.
There is no cost to be a chaser or a member of Ch8sing Waterfalls, nature is free. I can't charge for that. This experience is beautiful. I don't charge for that.
The only fee is for you to get yourself to our meetup and to our trailhead.
There are a couple events that we do during the year that we do charge for which is our campout that we do in the fall. This year it is September the 29th to October 1st.
And then at the end of the year we do a gala where we celebrate all things black and brown women outdoors, just have a party to celebrate the victory, celebrate our healing, celebrate sisterhood and community.
So those two things throughout the year are the only two things that we, that comes with a cost.
Again, is on our website and can also be found on our social media sites.
Lisa: And I would also say, having followed you for a while, not only can you find out about upcoming things, but you are great with Instagram Lives to see what it's like in the moment.
Deborah: Yes, yes. Thank you. So to really, you know, get a little glimpse of what you might expect. Definitely check that out.
Lisa: Well, we have three lightning-round questions.
Deborah: Okay.
Lisa: Hope you're ready. Nothing too crazy. The first one is, what has your favorite in your case, chase been in this past year?
Deborah: Oh, without a doubt, that has to be Jamaica. That was an easy one.
Lisa: Oh, great.
Deborah: Jamaica was amazing. And if you saw those Lives that I don't even need to say anymore. Jamaica and us getting to Fish Dunn Falls, which there was Fish Dunn One and Two. I think that was probably my favorite so far this past year.
Lisa: Great. I'll make a note of it in the show notes so people can learn more about it.
And the second one is, what do you typically have in your backpack that no one else on your chase has?
Deborah: In my backpack, there is a first aid kit. Now, I don't know if any, a lot of people have it, but mine has all the things.
I have a splint in there just in case I've got duct tape in there as well. I've got a tourniquet. So those things are my backpack that I don't know that everyone else has.
Lisa: Yep. I don't for sure. I have a couple anesthetic swabs, and that's a couple bandaids and that's about it.
And the third one is because I love to shine light on people that are doing great things in the outdoors: who would be your shoutout to someone else that is doing something great to bring belonging and diversity to outdoor recreation?
Deborah: Oh wow. That's a huge question. There's so many people. Oh my gosh.
Lisa: How about three?
Deborah: Okay. Okay. Okay.So I'm going to go with Hike Weirdo. She's diversifying outdoors.
Oh, Staples Intents, Staples Intents. They are great in getting people. They're overlanders and they're camping. They're doing outdoor things, so they're pretty cool group to follow.
Oh, yes, yes. Melanated Campout. Mm-hmm. Yes. Melanated Campout. They are doing, oh my gosh. If my calendar would allow me, I would be there this year . They're doing a great job in getting black and brown women, black and brown individuals out.
Lisa: Perfect.
Deborah: I just thought about Latinas Running. Dr. Kim is doing a stellar job of getting Latino women out running. Mm-hmm. Not only is she running, she too is they're doing some hikes and I think they're doing some other nature things.
But she is doing a great job of getting Latinas out, running and into nature. That's a great person to spotlight.
Lisa: Thank you. I'll put links to their social. I'll look them up and make sure people follow them as well.
Well, Deborah, this was been a great talk. I know you still have a lot catching up. It's always, when you travel, they always say it's always worse coming back because you have all these great memories and then you're like, what? What is this boring everyday life?
Deborah: This Bills pack your.
Lisa: I know. So welcome back and thank you. Thank you for a great conversation.
Deborah: Thank you so much. I appreciate this opportunity. I, I'm, this was good. Thank you.
Lisa: Thank you very much.
